Curse

floor · Sep 01, 2011, 10:00 AM // 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iuris

the feeling of winning will require much hard work. Hard work? Wait a second, don't I already have a job for that? One I actualyl get money for?

Assuming that high end pvp players dont get money from what they are doing is naive

Lest121 · Sep 01, 2011, 10:42 AM // 10:42

Why I don't PvP..

It's outdated....

The end...

Space · Sep 01, 2011, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

I cannot take seriously anyone who says that PVE is for losers and proceeds writing how good AB is no matter how much effort they've put into making their post.

AB is not PVP. It's a format to be played for teh lulz.

and yet this is the main competitive form of PvP in the sequel.

Shadar · Sep 01, 2011, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Amazing that some players still care about gw1 pvp so much as to start threads like this one. Wish the developer cared as much.

tl;dr 6y old dead game, move on.

Iuris · Sep 01, 2011, 11:10 AM // 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by floor

Assuming that high end pvp players dont get money from what they are doing is naive

We're talking about trying to get people going into low end PvP, remember?

garethporlest18 · Sep 01, 2011, 11:16 AM // 11:16

I've done all the various PvP forms over the years and the most fun out of all of them came from random arenas and probably AB.

I will never ever like serious PvP. I don't like serious gaming. Even on Call of Duty/Battlefield, I go for modes where I'm randomly placed into a team. I've won in all forms of PvP and lost, and the only reason I ever cared about winning was because I was getting points in X title or receiving a chance at X reward.

AB was fun, when I was with friends of course. I did more serious PvP with friends too and it was less fun. I'm suspecting AB was more fun because we'd laugh about silly builds we made up, and to see how they would work. We would never play to just win (although we always tried). Same with RA, usually I played it to test out certain builds and see if they were fun to play or not. Other times I played so I could get Gladiator points or B faction. The funnest was winning games with a A/Mo sin with healing skills and shadow steps.

I played TA, never enjoyed it. I played HA, won quite a few times..never enjoyed it. Same with GvG..all way too serious for me. What I mean by that is it requires you to use your mind, I don't want to use my mind when I game..I'm a Diablo player..I like to sit and drool and press keys to move forward. The fun I get out of 98% of the games I play comes from getting title points, rank points, rewards or achievement points. Not if I'm good enough to best the other player, I don't really care.

The only game where I can say that last sentence is least true is maybe FPS multi-player. Even then, I play to see my K/D raise and my rank go up.

The only game I actually play to best challenges for no reason outside of getting a higher score in leaderboards is Guitar Hero/Rock Band. Those are the most fun competitive games I play, everything else..like I said, I don't take seriously and I don't want to take seriously, nor do I want to think.

Even in the MMO's I play, raiding is not very fun for me because it requires me to use my mind..I enjoy it at the start then start to get sick of it..and the only reason I even do it is to get my armor/weapons. Never for the challenge.

I will be playing PvP in GW 2, but since I'm not like you and besting other players doesn't reward me nor give me any type of enjoyment (at least, not enough to keep me interested)...I probably won't stay there long.

Granted, besting monsters in PvE doesn't reward me either, I do it out of some kind of obsessive obligation to get certain things completed.

floor · Sep 01, 2011, 11:27 AM // 11:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iuris

We're talking about trying to get people going into low end PvP, remember?

well the OP was actually trying to encourage ppl to GvG, using AB as a learning tool only. More players in any form if pvp is a bonus ofc, but he was referring to the more "high end" arenas. Once ur in gvg, u start bad and work up, eventually becoming a top player urself. Simply natural progression.

Its only other random posts in the thread that are openly saying ppl should join FA/JQ/RA. Realistically joining these formats does not change anything, as they are formats that you join and enter solo, the thread (and many others) is openly trying to promote organised team based play.

Malice Black · Sep 01, 2011, 11:28 AM // 11:28

Balanced PvP offers no reward or fun for me.

Titles - lol...just no
HoH chest - I can buy anything from that chest
Status - Couldn't care less what anyone thinks of me on the internet

So, what is the point?

6 years I've played 1200 hours. Gaming is something to entertain when bored. Gaming should never end up being a second life (or your life...looking at those with many thousands of hours)

In GW2 I'll play world vs world as that is highly entertaining. Balanced is a yawn fest where everyone pretty much runs variations of the same build until one of the skills get nerfed. The PvP community then cries for a while until another build is created and the cycle repeats.

Sounds fun....

floor · Sep 01, 2011, 11:44 AM // 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

6 years I've played 1200 hours. Gaming is something to entertain when bored. Gaming should never end up being a second life (or your life...looking at those with many thousands of hours)

In GW2 I'll play world vs world as that is highly entertaining. Balanced is a yawn fest where everyone pretty much runs variations of the same build until one of the skills get nerfed. The PvP community then cries for a while until another build is created and the cycle repeats.

Sounds fun....

Having a lot of hours on guild wars doesnt have to impact on ur social life at all. At the time i wanted to get into GvG more seriously, i just stopped watching tv since thats how i was previously wasting my evenings. Sure i probably have 5k+ hours logged or something over 5 years, but considering i'll never play gw > doing stuff with friends, and i still go out and get drunk 1-2 nights a week, and play for 2 different sports teams, as well as holding down a full time job. The number of hours logged on gw is entirely down to how u manage ur time, im probably online 4+ hours a day virtually everyday (yes call me nerdy if u like), but when u think how much time u waste every day of ur life watching tv, reading a book etc, if u were to spend all that time on gw instead, its not so different.

I also presume you dont like sports irl, i mean football and rugby etc are all "balanced" in the sense its 2 teams set up identically, playing to the same set of rules, and the most skillful team wins. Pretty similar to much of guild wars, hence the term e-sport applies. Sports have survived for centuries, and in the modern era are one of the biggest money spinners in the world - see samuel eto'o new contract, 55k per day? lol. And e-sports are catching up, League of Legends season2, 5million dollar prize fund proves it. Clearly many people do not find "balanced" boring and like to test their individual ability against others. Although ofc, ur perfectly entitled to hold ur differing opinion if so desired.

Xenomortis · Sep 01, 2011, 11:54 AM // 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

6 years I've played 1200 hours. Gaming is something to entertain when bored. Gaming should never end up being a second life (or your life...looking at those with many thousands of hours)

Do you think the same of competitive sports?

mattybadger · Sep 01, 2011, 11:59 AM // 11:59

I'll try my best to stay on topic. Although I do not agree with all the things the OP said, at least they attempted to show reasons why someone might get interested in PVP.

I believe the main problem in the case you put forward is it was all your opinion which in some cases you believe to be fact. New people to PVP (whether they be new to the game or coming from PVE) will experience various problems (wait times, elitism, raging) and even after your post there is not the incentives to make players want to leave guilds, encourage friends, make new friends so they are able to consistently find people to play with. I know they could AB but AB as you mentioned does not have trouble with numbers currently so they would need to make the migration to HA or GVG.

I do think if you want to encourage more people to PVP creating threads with the intention of this one are the right way to go about it.

Malice Black · Sep 01, 2011, 12:28 PM // 12:28

I like some sports. Sport requires talent, dedication and varying degrees of pain. I like football, but I disagree with the way it's going. Getting paid millions a year to kick a piece of plastic is pathetic.

E-sport..it chokes me to even think of a game as sport. It's just ridiculous on so many levels.

floor · Sep 01, 2011, 12:36 PM // 12:36

the difference between sports and e-sports is pretty much nil. Sports do not even "require" fitness or endurance although it often helps. Some of the worlds top darts players are morbidly obese, far larger than most if not all guild wars players ;P

Sports require commitment, endeavour, a winning mentality, and good teamwork + communication skills. E-sports need the same.

I agree, the concept of e-sports does seem ridiculous, but in the world we live in sports and e-sports are becoming ever more intertwined.

Also as an offtopic comment: The footballers only get paid what they're worth, as stupid as that sounds. We all watch the games and are happy to pay the ticket prices, as well as the subscription to pay per view football channels on tv. We complain about it, yet everybody is happy to sit there and pay for it. If people stopped watching football, the sponsorship would stop --> stupid salaries would stop. Considering they provide entertainment to millions of viewers worldwide and reach out to a global audience, in context their salaraies seem far more in line. They dont get paid to just kick a ball, they get paid huge salaries for providing an entertainment service for the entire world population and get paid accordingly.

Ofc then the half a dozen clubs with billionaire owners who bankroll them ignore this principle entirely. But my post does at least apply to most clubs

Xenomortis · Sep 01, 2011, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Why? What fundamental difference is there between the two? What difference is there between two teams competing against each other on a football pitch and the two fighting it out in the course of a tournament for some FPS game? What difference is there between the two top Snooker players in a tournament final and the two Starcraft who face each at the end of a tournament?

Edit: Dammit, floor.

fowlero · Sep 01, 2011, 12:48 PM // 12:48

A great post Angry.

Unfortunately it seems some still can't see past the vocal minority that discolours the community by jumping on your tongue-in-cheek and actually see validity of your post. Funny, being that it proves your point.

cataphract · Sep 01, 2011, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Space

and yet this is the main competitive form of PvP in the sequel.

Everyone loves lulz.

Jeydra · Sep 01, 2011, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Let it be said that I both PvE and PvP.

I read the first post and I feel insulted. The is the only paragraph you've written that deals with why people should PvP.

Quote:

So why should I pvp again?
Because it's just so much more rewarding. In pve you are rewarded with trinkets, but how many trinkets do you really need? And what satisfaction is to be had after beating yet another mission? All you need to do is go to wiki and find out what is needed and copy the prescribed method. Everyone wins in pve, so what's the challenge? In pvp you will eventually get the feeling of actually improving. You play with other people and the experience is just so much more exhilarating than what anything in pve can offer. In order to beat other players you must constantly adapt and any error you make is a chance for your opponent to capitalise on. Unlike anything in pve this translates to an actual challenge. The bigger the challenge, the bigger the mental reward for overcoming it.

I call bullshit. What is rewarding is up to the player to decide. If he thinks it's rewarding to death level monsters and farm pre-update LDoA, that is up to him, and you have no right to interfere. You think getting more trinkets is useless. So? Someone else might want to get more trinkets so he has one of every monthly everlasting tonic. Who are you to criticize him for what his aims in the game are?

Do you really think that most PvE'ers don't know how to clear missions? Or, fyi, that most of the things on Wiki are actually subpar? And that's before you actually get into the real competition in PvE, which let me tell you is far more competitive than you think it is. No competition in PvE, that's ridiculous. No idea when you improve in PvE, that's even more ridiculous. PvE isn't challenging, why don't you try to 7H UW HM without cons, or solo DoA HM. PvE isn't exhilarating, that's because you have never achieved anything in PvE, instead getting carried by the people who wrote Wiki.

I'm willing to bet my last dollar that you have no idea what high-end PvE is like, and yet here you are criticizing PvE. Ridiculous.

And I've not even mentioned how people can actually choose to play this game to have fun, not to compete.

I'm all for getting more people into PvP, but approaches like yours aren't helping. You may be free to come to your own conclusions about how stupid PvE is, but to call PvE'ers losers on a public forum and then try to force your vision of the game on them is an insult. Please stfu before I start a topic entitled "why you should PvE".

Sankt Hallvard · Sep 01, 2011, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

I'm willing to bet my last dollar that you have no idea what high-end PvE is like, and yet here you are criticizing PvE. Ridiculous.

Contrary to how most of you pve fundamentalists have been interpreting what I wrote I'm not here to bash on pve in general or to try to persuade every guruposter into going full pvp. Let me tell you a story.

I got this game back in may 2005 or so and started off in pre-searing pve. It was amazing. Then trying to make my way into post-searing I was forced into a 4v4 pvp arena where I got trashed.(or so I assume) I spent my first years doing mainly pve but tried every arena as I moved my way through the prophecies storyline. (ascalon arena -> yaks bend -> the jungle -> droknar) The game experience peaked with the introduction of sorrow's furnace. Pve was fun, I've played through all campaigns with several pve characters. I've done fow, uw, doa and eotn dungeons. I've steered clear of these so-called speed clears and so I may not be a "high end pve'er" like yourself, but I do have quite a lot of experience in pve.

Now where am I going with this? My biggest regret in GW is that I got into serious pvp way too late, people were already good at pvp and it was hard to break into. And I was reluctant to get on vent with ragey teenagers only to be bossed around or raged at. If this was a barrier to me back then I can only imagine what a barrier it is to players today. The reason I regret not doing serious pvp earlier is because (imo, of course!) pvp is just so much better in every way than pve. You feel more involved and especially to those of you who have stressed that you prefer cooperation before competition, pvp is SO much about cooperation, it truly is a team effort. As I've put it earlier I believe there is a largely undiscovered part of the game out there for most people. To many it may seem like too high a barrier to get into and they are unaware of how rewarding it can be, I've tried to portray WHY pvp can be so much fun and how even people totally inexperienced to pvp can, with a bit of effort and determination, still get their hands dirtied by pvp - and love it!

I have no delusions that every guruposter will flock to pvp after this thread but I hope at least some of you will be jerked out of your comfort zone and give it a try - in the right way. Don't expect to get easy wins, don't expect the HA regulars to come hold your hand, don't enter the poor pvp arenas.(RA) If you are adamant about your pve exclusivity chances are I won't be able to persuade you any time soon anyway. This post is not directed at you. This post is for those that are bored with pve, want to try pvp, have tried pvp but given up or those that pvp but haven't been able to find their place yet. It seems to me most people who try pvp look in the wrong places(RA, HA intl) or expect to dominate since they have beasted in pve and are put off by getting rolled in pvp. It's like trying to cross a road with heavy traffic. Just because you've learnt to walk doesn't mean you can just waltz into the road and expect to cross unscathed. Finding a zebra-crossing is simply the best way to go about it. And to those of you who want to cross that road, I'm telling you where that zebra-crossing is. It's called AB and picking your friends to come along.

tl;dr - I'm not here to criticize pve. I'm not here to tell people what they like. I'm not here to make friends. I'm not here to express myself as some sort of self-terapy. I'm not here to lure poor pve'ers into pvp as "fresh meat". I'm here because I believe a large portion of you are missing out on the best part of GW. I'm here to shine a light. As the selfless samaritan I am.

Let there be light!

Rob Roy The Divine · Sep 01, 2011, 02:29 PM // 14:29

anyone that says pvp is dead is wrong.

from personal experience, if i was to set up a gvg now, i would get a game in 2/3 minutes tops.

a 2/3 minute wait is nothing, you can talk to your teammates, go on youtube, go on forums, stalk friends on facebook. if you can't occupy yourself for 2 minutes on the internet, you need help.

anyone complaining about wait time clearly has no patience and needs to learn that when you press a button things dont happen automatically. 30s wait is how long you wait in a que for a cup of coffee, if not longer. If you honestly don't have the mental capabilities to wait 30s for something, then again you need help.

Half of the people that have replied on this thread have probably never played AB properly with 2/3 friends. AB is a brilliant arena, where you actually have to think about what you're doing or you're gonna end up losing dramatically. And the tactics are very simple. you either fight a team, cap a shrine, or run around like a headless chicken. either way it's a brilliant place to practice simple things like kiting, weapon swapping or even more complex things like movement control, ganking etc.

also, i love how all the pve players are more stuck up than most casual pvp players. i tried to join a speedclear or something the other day after 2 years of no pve, and nobody would take me on their team cause i never had a pve skill or something. seriously? also why do i need like 1000 summoning stones to show that i've done something before? you mock players needing titles to pvp, then wont let players join pve groups cause htey dont want to spend 40 hours maxing a title?

i think most pve players need to take a look at themselves before they go around calling pvp players elitests, at least we allow players to join our team and help them. personally we've been playing with players that have never gvg'd and gotten to the top 200 on the ladder from doing practically nothing but playing builds you can see by using the "b" button to observe or going here ...

http://www.gwpvx.com/Category:Meta_working_GvG_builds
http://www.gwpvx.com/Category:Meta_working_AB_builds

honestly, if you have more than 10 minutes and a few friends, click one of those links and play pvp. you wont regret it

LifeInfusion · Sep 01, 2011, 02:33 PM // 14:33

AB: better now due to imperial faction , but still people that don't know what they're doing
RA: better now due to pt change (less frustration), but more people that are just in there for points (PVErs who sit in 40/40 sets with radiant insignias)
GvG: used to be better , lower bar to entry
HA: used to be better due to activity, variety
TA: gone, used to be better version of RA
HB: gone

AB isn't real PvP most of the time because of the mobbing and the triple nuking of shrines, spirit camping, and defy pain warriors.

I played a crapload of AB starting in Factions mainly because most of the people I GvGed with had left when the Koreans left.

The reason why more people that play PvE will enjoy AB than GvG: there's positive feedback, rather than a dipping guild rank when you lose. It's inevitable you lose when you first start out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Roy The Divine

anyone complaining about wait time clearly has no patience and needs to learn that when you press a button things dont happen automatically. 30s wait is how long you wait in a que for a cup of coffee, if not longer. If you honestly don't have the mental capabilities to wait 30s for something, then again you need help.

Half of the people that have replied on this thread have probably never played AB properly with 2/3 friends. AB is a brilliant arena, where you actually have to think about what you're doing or you're gonna end up losing dramatically. And the tactics are very simple. you either fight a team, cap a shrine, or run around like a headless chicken. either way it's a brilliant place to practice simple things like kiting, weapon swapping or even more complex things like movement control, ganking etc.

also, i love how all the pve players are more stuck up than most casual pvp players. i tried to join a speedclear or something the other day after 2 years of no pve, and nobody would take me on their team cause i never had a pve skill or something. seriously? also why do i need like 1000 summoning stones to show that i've done something before? you mock players needing titles to pvp, then wont let players join pve groups cause htey dont want to spend 40 hours maxing a title?

i think most pve players need to take a look at themselves before they go around calling pvp players elitests, at least we allow players to join our team and help them. personally we've been playing with players that have never gvg'd and gotten to the top 200 on the ladder from doing practically nothing but playing builds you can see by using the "b" button to observe or going here ...

http://www.gwpvx.com/Category:Meta_working_GvG_builds
http://www.gwpvx.com/Category:Meta_working_AB_builds

honestly, if you have more than 10 minutes and a few friends, click one of those links and play pvp. you wont regret it

I think what it boils down to is whether you have the patience to be good, whether it is PvP or PvE. Even in PvE you either see direct wiki builds in zones where they fail or builds that make you go WTF (Warriors with fire spells). That's not even counting people that can't play builds properly or stand in AoEs.

It's been said Guild Wars is Skill>Time Played... but it's only to a certain extent. You're probably not going to be quarterknocking patient spirit if you only played 50 hours total.

In smaller formats such as RA or TA, every mistake is amplified compared to AB (unless it's 4-4-4). If your WoH gets d-shotted by pure luck, then it's "o s---". For damage dealers, larger formats are more important for practice since 2 monks and a rit flagger do much more to mitigate than 1 heal monk.

I know for a fact when I don't play for a while, I get really rusty (missing pre-prots for example). In "real" PvP, with the number of skillchanges happening, if you don't GvG for a month or two it's basically like starting from square one except for the map knowledge and GvG mechanics (flag running, trebuchets, kits, etc.).

The other problem with GvG is you have to have people playing at the same time... and if you want your team to be any good everyone has to know what the team is doing (so you don't need to discuss tactics in depth while in the match, on voice chat). These people also need to be reasonably knowledgeable unless you want to be facerolled: shield sets, kiting, knowledge of skills, basic PvP map knowledge, etc. If someone wants to improve they need to be able to take criticism without ragequitting like some people in RA.

@OP, also not everyone has the killer/achiever mentality. Some are socializers/explorers. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartle_Test)